16 comments

  • jillesvangurp 38 minutes ago
    Turning degraded land back into fertile land is actually very feasible and not as hopeless as it may seem. A lot of the damage people have done to landscapes in recent centuries is still reversible. There are a lot of examples all over the world of people turning dried out and heavily eroded land back into fertile land with great bio diversity.

    Sometimes at small scale, and sometimes at very large scale. Often even just leaving it alone, and putting a stop to the practices that destroyed the land, (e.g. keeping the grazers out) sometimes is all that is needed. For example, a simple fence can allow vegetation to re-establish itself without getting destroyed by hungry deer, sheep, or whatever.

    Once you have plants with deep roots, the land gets better at retaining water and soil stops eroding away. Once the land can retain water, a lot of life can make use of that. Nature tends to be resilient and adaptable. There are no one size fits all solutions for every landscape. But there are a lot of things that have been tried that have yielded good results.

    In any case, stuff like this is not as surprising as it seems. Organic matter rots. That usually involves a lot of bacteria and insects. The result is basically compost. A giant heap of compost and a lot of wild seeds from neighboring grounds with a bit of water is one hell of a good way to kickstart nature. Probably the best decision was to leave it alone.

    • fainpul 30 minutes ago
      As demonstrated in "The Biggest Little Farm" [1]. However it took years of hard work.

      [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8969332/

    • sophacles 36 minutes ago
      Often you don't even need seeds from neighboring land. The soil that remains often still has seeds sitting dormant waiting for conditions to return to healthy.
  • bennettnate5 21 minutes ago
    > Despite this promising start, the conservation experiment wasn't to last, after a rival juice manufacturer called TicoFruit sued Del Oro, alleging that its competitor had "defiled a national park".

    No good deed goes unpunished--wild that the competitor company successfully sued them.

    • adammarples 2 minutes ago
      Maybe they can now overturn that judgement
  • ethagnawl 1 hour ago
    It's recently occurred to me how "valuable" today's trash is likely to be considered in the future. I'll focus on organics here but I think the plastics will be equally valuable, too.

    I have no idea what % of American households compost or live in places which offer municipal compost pickup but I imagine it's in the single digits. As evidenced by this article, compost is/can be an incredibly powerful agent of change: food production, habitat restoration, etc. However, most of us are putting organics into refuse streams where they're likely to be burned or buried in a way that's actually harmful because they release methane when they decompose under those conditions. It can be a bit gross and tedious to compost at home but there is a certain satisfaction which comes along with it.

    • acomjean 39 minutes ago
      I worked for a time designing and building landfills. Nothing really rots in them typically as it’s really dry and don’t have good access to oxygen. Modern landfills are like giant plastic bags. This is to protect ground water.

      Decomposition as noted releases methane. Some landfills gather it in pipes and “flare” it )burn. They have to vent the gas as a full landfill is covered by a plastic cap to prevent water infiltration.

      We dug up trash from the 70s to extend the landfill out. It was in remarkably good shape.

      https://planetliner.com/landfill-cap/

    • PaulHoule 37 minutes ago
      See https://www.floridatrend.com/article/14356/trashed-plan-to-u...

      St. Lucie County wanted to use a plasma torch that would have converted plastic and other carboniferous waste to energy. Like many other plans to do the same, it fell through

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasification

    • schrectacular 1 hour ago
      The thought occurred to me some 25+ years ago that today's landfills will be tomorrow's mines. I hope it isn't true but taking the very long view I'm afraid it will be.
      • mlyle 1 hour ago
        We already mine landfills -- mostly for land reclamation but sometimes to recover resources.

        In the longer run, when there's been more compaction, settling, and densification (and changes in what things are valuable), and more need to reclaim land that was previously landfilled, we will do this more.

        • PaulHoule 36 minutes ago
          People sometimes build stuff on top of landfills.
      • kleinsch 1 hour ago
        Today’s landfills are already used for natural gas generation.
    • bdcravens 1 hour ago
      For those who can't or find dealing with compost a challenge, there are also other options to recycle biowaste. It's a bit of pricey subscription, but we have a Mill which processes most food waste into chicken feed (you do have to mail the processed food to them for further processing).
    • ChrisMarshallNY 44 minutes ago
      For anthropologists and archaeologists, trash/sewage is gold.
    • roboror 1 hour ago
      Proud to report residential composting is now mandatory in NYC.
      • IG_Semmelweiss 2 minutes ago
        Please elaborate. From what i know based on prior research, most metro (including NYC) recycling is effectively a scam. How do you mandate composting in NYC ? Are you implying that all buildings have now must build a 3rd chute specifically for compost ? And who's picking up that compost ? NYC Trash collection ?

        I've seen compost vending machines in my visits to NYC and a few other places, but i've yet anyone using them

      • ethagnawl 58 minutes ago
        It's doubtful that'll ever happen in Dutchess County but I can dream.
    • IncreasePosts 43 minutes ago
      These machines are currently too expensive for widespread adoption, but I love the electric composter I bought that I keep in my garage.

      There's no grossness or work involved. You just dump stuff in it and it cooks it down to something dirt-like(nearly but not quite compost ready) in less than a day.

      I have municipal compost, but it's only picked up every 2 weeks, so that meant I needed to keep food scraps around for two weeks before pick up, so they either would get super gross and smelly, or I had to use my chest freezer to store them and make that gross and smelly and dedicated to just compost.

  • MisterTea 1 hour ago
    > As for how the orange peels were able to regenerate the site so effectively in just 16 years of isolation, nobody's entirely sure.

    We now understand that fungus plays a vital role in the soil ecosystem. And given how easily fruit and vegetables rot and get moldy, the orange peel mass sounds like the perfect layer for the fungus to thrive in. The dead earth received a live giving blanket yielding healthy soil vegetation can thrive in.

    • TheGRS 46 minutes ago
      They also mentioned that invasive grass species were suppressed by the orange peels which likely contributed to native plants thriving better.
  • mynegation 1 hour ago
    They could not find the site and searched for it for years. A stark reminder that civilian use of GPS is relatively recent thing. The site was created in 1990s and GPS was opened for civilian use only in 1995 and gained equal accuracy by legislation in 2000.
  • proee 2 hours ago
    One risk here is that a giant pile of biomass could allow nefarious critters to grow disproportionately. For example, in Alaska, they had giant brush piles that ended up fueling beetle infestations across the state.
  • arnorhs 1 hour ago
    Does orange peel not produce any CO2 / methane when left like this? I'm assuming there is some negative carbon footprint before this becomes a positive?

    The ecological win definitely looks nice on paper, but whenever people talk about compost the carbon footprint / gas emissions is always at the front of people's minds, and I don't really see that discussed in the article.

    The article does say

    > Especially since, in addition to the double-win of dealing with waste and revitalising barren landscapes, richer woodlands also sequester greater amounts of carbon from the atmosphere – meaning little plots of regenerated land like this could ultimately help save the planet.

    How long will it take for it to cross the CO2-neutral mark? Maybe a silly question, definitely not my area of expertese.

    • sfink 1 hour ago
      CO2 is going to be neutral for the peels. You're just transporting it from where the oranges grew to where they were dumped. The CO2 benefit is purely from the trees and other biomass that grow where they wouldn't be growing before.

      As for methane, that's a good question. Orange peels are better than most things because the limonene inhibits methane producing bacteria. But you'd still get quite a bit in the deeper piles (that produce the anaerobic conditions needed for methane production).

      Spreading them out more would help, but might interfere with the beneficial effects.

      • rustystump 44 minutes ago
        I may be wrong but isnt most of the tree carbon capture over stated as in the overwhelming majority comes from algae in the oceans?

        While forests are great they are not the best focus iirc compared to the oceans.

    • laurencerowe 1 hour ago
      The orange peel is going to decompose and produce CO2 either way. Methane is produced when there is not enough oxygen available while decomposing, which certainly seems a possibility if it's dumped in big piles.
      • PaulHoule 49 minutes ago
        Mostly.

        Remember the orange trees took the CO2 out of the atmosphere to make the peels. Some of it, probably most of it, is going back into the atmosphere but some of it is going to become soil carbon which could be retained for decades

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_carbon

        Soil carbon is like dark matter in that there is a lot of it and it is poorly understood.

    • dgacmu 1 hour ago
      You're getting downvoted but it's a reasonable question if posed in good faith. The tl;dr is that there are really a few options for what could happen to those orange peels:

      (1) Landfill burial

         (1a) Without methane capture and use: Produces methane, relatively high short term warming potential.
         (1b) With methane capture and use: Ends up as CO2 after burning the methane.
      
      (2) Composting (this approach)

         (2a) Mostly aerobic: Produces CO2
         (2b) Mostly anaerobic: Produces methane
      
      A deep pile that is never turned will decompose anaerobically, resulting in fairly undesirable methane. A shallower pile or one that is mixed well will result in mostly aerobic decomposition. The aerobic decomposition will produce CO2 but not huge amounts of it. Each hectare of land could absorb something like ~8 tons of CO2 per year; with 7 hectares, the CO2 emitted by composting 12t of oranges is going to be dwarfed by the new vegetation. After a few years when you're growing big trees, the rate of CO2 absorption might rise as high as 20-30t/year/hectare in costa rica's environment. And this is probably an underestimate, as the soil amendment of the orange peels seems to have stimulated faster regrowth than would have happened otherwise.

      And perhaps more to the point: There isn't really a purely "no co2" way of disposing of organic matter other than perhaps burying it at the bottom of a deep mineshaft (but the co2 or methane will be produced anyway). Landfilling it is strictly worse - you still get the decomposition products, _or worse_ because you'll mostly get methane, but without producing useful soil byproducts.

      Overall this project is a huge win on a carbon perspective and a waste reduction perspective.

  • throwway262515 2 hours ago
    > As for how the orange peels were able to regenerate the site so effectively in just 16 years of isolation, nobody's entirely sure.

    Another data point to the thesis that it's not the earth that needs saving, it's human systems. If disruption becomes the order of the day, who's impacted the worst?

  • contingencies 12 minutes ago
    The whole compost thing can be a lot of hassle for people. For a simpler option, if you are lucky enough to have a decent garden area, find somewhere away from your house and just throw biomass there regularly. Coffee grinds, spent tea, leftover veg, etc. and watch what happens! Sometimes simple is best.
  • asplake 1 hour ago
  • mrtnmcc 1 hour ago
    Suppose this is the article to give your friend when he chides you for dropping an orange peel on a hike.
    • chunkymilk 1 hour ago
      It depends on where the hike is: Dropping an orange peel in a humid, temperate, low-elevation place is vastly different than a desert, high-alpine, tundra or other environment where organics take a long time to decompose.
    • stronglikedan 1 hour ago
      life's too short for friends like that
      • throwway120385 9 minutes ago
        It's apparently long enough for me to see the same orange peel in the same place over a year or two.
  • skipants 2 hours ago
    > Despite this promising start, the conservation experiment wasn't to last, after a rival juice manufacturer called TicoFruit sued Del Oro, alleging that its competitor had "defiled a national park".

    ... why does TicoFruit even care? Did they just see their competitor do something that might be good for people and sue them out of spite?

    • nightpool 2 hours ago
      They saw it as corruption, basically. Here's a contemporaneous article: https://apps.sas.upenn.edu/caterpillar/index.php?action=retr...

      > TicoFrut, which is 98% Costa Rican-owned, charges that the environmental services contract is little more than a permit for improper disposal of its foreign-owned competitor's waste. TicoFrut President Carlos Odio says Del Oro should be compelled to build a proper waste-disposal plant just as his company was forced to do in the mid-1990s amid allegations that orange waste from its juicing plant was polluting a nearby river. So TicoFrut teamed up with a high-profile environmentalist and radio host, Alexander Bonilla, and enlisted the support of two prominent congressmen and a few citrus growers in denouncing the Del Oro project. However, none of Costa Rica's conservation groups joined in the attack on Del Oro.

      [...]

      > One of the ministers they cited was the acting environment minister at the time, Carlos Manuel Rodriguez, who signed the contract on behalf of the government. Rodriguez, an attorney, denied having sat on Del Oro's board but acknowledged representing the company while working in a law firm contracted by the CDC, Del Oro's British owners. The other official, Agriculture Minister Esteban Brenes, acknowledged having sat on Del Oro's board but denied any involvement with the contract.

      > TicoFrut also claimed foreign employees of the CDC and, by extension, Del Oro, had received diplomatic immunity as a sweetener to invest, and could thus act with impunity.

      > The Costa Rican Ombudsman's Office conducted its own review and declared the contract illegal. In its non-binding ruling, the ombudsman's office said no official studies had been done on the viability of the orange-waste experiment, and that due process had not been followed before the contract's signing

      • MisterTea 1 hour ago
        > TicoFrut President Carlos Odio says Del Oro should be compelled to build a proper waste-disposal plant just as his company was forced to do in the mid-1990s amid allegations that orange waste from its juicing plant was polluting a nearby river.

        This is the work of a petty man child. This is how it reads to me: "I got caught being a lazy irresponsible cheap-skate who was illegally dumping and had to pay. Meanwhile, these intelligent forward-thinking jerks find an environmentally beneficial way to dispose of their waste for free! I'll show them and take those goody two shoes down a peg!"

        • TheGRS 40 minutes ago
          I'm also disappointed by the decision, but I get the argument made from the business perspective. I'm required to dispose my waste properly and its reflected in my prices, my competitor is not doing these practices and they should be compelled to follow the same regulations. I'm just disappointed that their court sided with the business since a better resolution would've been "your company can do this too if you just do the legwork".
      • underlipton 1 hour ago
        In a way, they might have been right. Who knows whether or not a continuation of the active experiment would have pushed it over a tipping point where the positive effects were nullified. Maybe part of the "magic" is that they literally left it there to rot.
        • PaulHoule 45 minutes ago
          it could have been corruption and something that turned out well in the end
      • jandrese 1 hour ago
        I mean it makes sense if you were just forced to implement an expensive waste management system and your competitor gets to just dump the stuff on the ground in a National Park. I would complain too.
        • ambicapter 41 minutes ago
          It doesn't make sense if you were forced to implement waste management because you did it poorly to start with and your competitor found a smart way to do it for cheap.
    • throwway262515 2 hours ago
      My guess is that Del Oro would have a competitive advantage in its waste disposal costs.
    • jaffa2 2 hours ago
      I guess tico fruit is just an asshole. Being sued is usually bad. If you can sue your competitor even better.
  • bell-cot 2 hours ago
    This being HN - might there be any Costa Rican lawyers in the house?

    It would be extremely interesting to hear about the legal merits of the rival company's lawsuit, and the politics of the Supreme Court.

    • PaulHoule 45 minutes ago
      It's the kind of question that I'd rather see answered by an ecologist than a judge!
  • mikkupikku 23 minutes ago
    > Despite this promising start, the conservation experiment wasn't to last, after a rival juice manufacturer called TicoFruit sued Del Oro, alleging that its competitor had "defiled a national park".

    This is why we can't have nice things. Juice company makes compost? Sued! Ford wants to pay his workers a living wage? Sued! Nail lawyers to trees.

  • Mistletoe 1 hour ago
    Monty Don has said before that really the best and only thing you need for a great garden soil is regular addition of lots of compost. This is it on a very large scale. :)
  • comrade1234 1 hour ago
    Why dump the peel when you can use the entire orange to make that nasty orange British drink.