> If you use iCloud+ and Hide My Email, there is still time to generate more aliases on @icloud.com as the change has not yet landed and the rate limit for creating aliases is at least 30 per hour.
Part of the reason to use Hide My Email was that it made keeping myself private hassle-free. Making a system to pre-generate values and then catalog them for later use is quite the hassle.
If you mean "set up an equivalent service" under your own domain, that's both less private and more likely to be blocked; there are a lot of services which, unfortunately, only allow sign-ups from big, well-known domains.
Are there really? I don't think I've ever encountered such a service in all the years I've been using an email address under my own domain.
And blocking every email address that's not from a big provider means blocking basically everyone who tries to sign up with their company email, which might not be great for business.
I've been running my own mailserver on a firstnamelastname.com domain for nearly 15 years.
As far as I can tell, nobody blocks it. Google sometimes rejects emails where the from address doesn't match the real sending address, which is fair.
I guess the first couple of years were rocky, I hadn't figured out DKIM and SPF and all the other blood rituals yet. Back then I got blocked by Steam and banks. But ever since I set up the correct security it's been fine. Been my primary email for a long long time. All my online accounts are tied to it.
Incidentally, I also have free and unlimited aliases. But I don't usually bother because I have a rule to route all messages to unknown addresses into a special folder. I can give out any random address at my domain and it will always make it back to me. So much more convenient than logging into the website to generate an alias.
I did that too years ago, but the management of it was kind of annoying. DKIM was just getting introduced when I stopped using it. SPF had controversy. I understand both of those are awesome now.
The biggest issue was if your ip address got listed in a RBL (Realtime Blackhole List), and then nobody would talk to you. Some were easy to get off, others were permanent blocks, and I found those to be constantly interfering with the delivery of mail. At least the rejection would usually tell you which RBL blocked you.
Within the last month both Mapbox and Etsy blocked my attempts to signup using a Proton Mail alias. How many services do you sign up for in recent years, on average? The practice is becoming incredibly common and more than likely you're just grandfathered in.
are you sure they're not just blacklisting protonmail vs. whitelisting known providers? ime a lot of sites block "temporary" or "anonymous" email providers
Yes, espacially exotic tld. I have a ".email" domain name, and I get 2 to 3 instances a year of either rejected forms, or sneakier, just confirmation email that never come until I use a .com address.
I have a 3 character .com as my primary email... it gets rejected more often than I'd like... including at my bank :) I've got a longer more normal domain that I alias, but it annoys me none the less.
MX->A->PTR->A->MX
SPF
DKIM
DMARC
mta-sts - DNS and webpage
Also your IPs must be squeaky bum clean, ideally for several years. DNSSEC might help too. In the UK getting as far as DKIM is usually enough (plus clean IPs, even FTTC connections will work if static).
I've had some reject my e-mail address because it contains their company name. REI was one (ie it wouldn't allow rei@domain.com but would accept reicoop@domain.com)
I was just able to create an account using `rei@<mydomain>` on rei.com w/o any issues. Now, figuring out how to delete the account is another matter entirely...
Cool, they probably changed it, this was years ago. I've had similar issues with other companies, REI is just the only one I can I really recall right now.
I've had my own domain for over two decades, typically use the exact pattern you describe for per-site email addresses, and have literally never run into it being blocked. Not once. Which is why I confirmed it with REI when you mentioned it, because it didn't sound right to me.
I haven't had an outright rejection, but definitely a few odd moments with call center agents. "theircompanyname@myname.com" is definitely not the default expectation :)
I've had my own domain for email for twenty years or so now, and I've encountered maybe one signup form that didn't accept it. What you're saying is definitely not true, and I would highly recommend using your own domain for email (preferably with Fastmail, it's fantastic).
We've had to ask you many times to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we'll end up having to ban you. I don't want to ban you, so please fix this. It shouldn't be hard to make your substantive points without being an asshole.
Problem is that using of own domain is creating huge privacy and cybersecurity risk since you can track all the person profiles across all the databases ever leaked.
Its nice as vanity item, but it's better not to use same domain across banks, online forums and porn sites. ;-)
1. Create a domain like myquickanonemailaccount.com.
2. Use the domain exclusively for hosting your own mail, but create a fake account creation page that just temporarily doesn't work.
3. As an added bonus, should you one day get a subpoena for information about one of your site user's online activities, you've got like a 24 hour head start on fleeing the country.
Yes but not always applicable unfortunately… e.g. the other day I was in Italy, I needed to park on the publicly available parking which was paid to the municipality.
No other parking available anywhere near in 30 mins walking distance. (paid or free)
I had to download a 3rd party app that asked me to register. This app isn’t by the Italian government, it’s affiliated though.
So in that situation, I want nothing to do with your website or app, because I wouldn’t able to park.
Can you not pay with cash or card anywhere? What if you don't have a "smart" phone? I would categorically refuse to park anywhere that requires running a proprietary app on my device. Fortunately, in the States at least, I have not encountered such a place yet.
In the UK, I believe parking companies need to have a way to pay without the app but it's usually so bloody inconvenient that it's about the same as requiring it.
You need to find a working parking metre which may or may not work, accept cards or give back change. Also most if not all of parking apps allow you to pay by the exact minute and extended your stay dynamically from the go, while with a paper ticket you need to go back to the car and get another one before it expires
In my city in Northern California our downtown uses an app for parking now. I don’t use it so it’s still an option, but you have to goto a kiosk, enter your license plate number, and pay with card. It’s made the downtown more of a ghost town (admittedly it was already dying) and the boomers with cash just don’t go. The younger 20somethings all complain “boomers are too stupid to use an app” and have no concern for privacy apparently. Welcome to the future I guess.
- the apps almost always allow you to remotely increase your stay
- the apps almost always allow you to pay by the exact minute instead of by the quarter/half an hour
IDK I’ve appreciated Reddit killing off good features like old version, putting a time-lock banner on mobile while logged out, trying to block VPNs when logged out, etc.
I want that company devalued and bought by Verizon or AOL to die a Yahoo death.
What is insane to me is how few people realize their stock has a higher P/E than nVidia… and it isn’t because of some bullshit minor AI data deals. It’s a youth-forward narrative machine, and everyone knows it.
> I want that company devalued and bought by Verizon or AOL to die a Yahoo death.
If the future's your oyster for what happens to Reddit, why stop there? If it's bought by somebody, that implies that Spez gets an amount of money that is greater than $0.00. Ideally, we avoid such a grim and unjust outcome. We want it to be made effectively worthless so he goes broke.
I ran into this with an NVMO mobile provider. They did not like my personal email domains (assorted .net and .org) so I nagged their customer support until they manually added it. Their marketing team happily emails my personal domains once added. Some day this will probably cause a problem but my goal is to eventually get rid of my cell phone either way.
As of about six months ago, AT&T's web site would not accept email addresses without a three-character TLD. I had to get a customer service person on the phone to manually change my address.
Just a guess but .us does not permit whois privacy and perhaps that may be a factor but I am entirely guessing as all my domains have whois privacy enabled and they would not say why their system rejected my domains.
ChatGPT doesn’t allow private relay and hasn’t allowed it since launch may be. So it’s not always possible to not use them, of course now there is no need to use ChatGPT and I have just stopped and moved on from it
Completely agree - have you encountered this before? The Gmail plus sign alias trick has been widely known for a long time and, to my knowledge, still works well today. It would be easy enough for websites to either block + in gmail addresses or instead grab the true email.
Some sites that block "+" in email addresses are actually just doing it out of incompetence. My credit union, for example, will actually accept an address with a "+" in it, but nothing will work because some broken bit of web 1.0 plumbing along the way converted it to a space (it shows up that way on my profile page). I wouldn't be surprised to see " " on my printed bank statements.
Gmail also have "googlemail.com" alias and you can split your username with dots since they dont count like "user@gmail.com" and "u.s.e.r@gmail.com" are the same thing,
I frequently buy a domain that I think is funny and use that to forward all my emails to my main email account. It's trivial to do from Cloudflare. Then after that 1 year is up, my domain goes away and so does all of the spam.
It's precisely when I want "nothing to do with your website" that I want to use a private friendly email if I'm nonetheless forced to interact with it...
Great. If you insist on giving me a fake email, your business is probably a liability I don't want anyway.
Of course this is industry-dependent (I'm in payments processing) and not every business should have this posture, but being able to distinguish between users who are going out of their way to be anonymous and users who aren't is a useful signal.
> If you insist on giving me a fake email, your business is probably a liability I don't want anyway
It's not a fake e-mail, it's a legitimate e-mail that you can send e-mail to and the user will receive, which has to be created by a paying iCloud user and not an anonymous rando off the internet.
I'd be interested to know what downsides, if any, you see for a website to accept a private e-mail address like this. Do you have a legitimate complaint about these sorts of e-mails? Again, given that private relay isn't an 'anonymous e-mail service' (it's still tied to your iCloud account so spam, etc. shouldn't be any more of an issue) but merely an 'anonymous to the person you're giving the e-mail to' service.
If your actual complaint is 'if you insist on giving me an e-mail that you can revoke unilaterally making me unable to contact you against your wishes, and which cannot be associated with other user data from other sources to build a profile of you, then you're not worth having as a customer' then that's a separate complaint - and one that means I want nothing to do with your website.
I'm curious what you think the difference is between "a paying iCloud user" and "an anonymous rando off the internet." How many Apple gift cards do you reckon get sent to fraudsters every day? Decades worth of iCloud+ surely.
I'm running a business where I need to know who you are, because my platform can be used defraud other people. If you're trying to hide who you are from our very first interaction, that's a massive red flag.
If you can trivially create hundreds of these emails, and fill in the rest of the required info with bought/stolen/generated PII, now I have a vector for mass fraud. Requiring you to use a recognized non-anonymized provider doesn't stop you, but it sure does slow you down. (It's not this simple of course, but all security works in layers)
If these terms are not acceptable to you, then great! Don't use the website, there's no need to be salty because that's what you said you wanted. Isn't it?
I don't mind either, because the number of legitimate users who are bothered by this restriction is infinitesimal compared to the number of fraudsters who would take advantage if it wasn't in place. It can be difficult to comprehend the scale of platform fraud unless you've worked in this area, many days fraudulent signups outnumber legitimate ones.
It sounds like you are trying to shoehorn email into some kind of “real person verification” role, when you ought to be doing actual KYC through some provider like ID.me. (If honest to god no-shit fraud is on the table.)
If I can filter/throttle fraudsters at the create account step for free, I save on the fees my KYC/IDV providers charge each time they attempt to defeat it.
At the cost of blocking legitimate users who don’t want to be spammed, don’t want to be correlated after a data breach, etc.
I have been willing to do KYC for services (usually financial) without giving out my main email. Services that put up too many barriers to this don’t get my business. I concede that there aren’t that many users like me, compared to the general public, but I’m a legitimate user.
As others have alluded to, I'm not doing this to be anonymous, I'm doing this because companies can't be trusted not to leak my email address. Every real business that knows my real identity (banks, payroll, government, retailers, etc.) gets its own alias.
When an organization invariably leaks my email and I start receiving spam to it, I generate a new one, update my email on record, deactivate the old one, and the spam stops.
Didn't really have a choice with openrouter. I ended up using "Hide My Email" which gave me an icloud.com, which will likely no longer work according to this article.
I used to run a hybrid mobile app + webapp company.
Private emails regularly lead to awful customer service interactions because people cannot tell us the email they used to register. Fastmail at least is off the beaten path enough that people probably can understand. Apple, especially using sign in with Apple, is horrid. And not just people unable to tell us the email; they then create multiple accounts; try to sign in on web and use their actual email and then have 2 accounts and flip shit that their stuff is gone; etc. Oh, and regularly blame us for their confusion.
So I guess the solution is just to begin to allow accounts to always register multiple emails? Although I guess the issue of multiple accounts is still going to exist if the users don't know the initial (private) email that they signed up with though unless there is a different unique ID that everyone will be able to remember.
I'm curious (and not trolling by asking) what a solution might be since email has been used as a unique account identifier for so long it is hard for my brain to think of another option at the moment.
I feel like email overtook usernames because it was more likely to be unique/memorable. I hate when websites ask me to remember a username (even though I'm using a password manager so I should really just calm down.)
Pro tip for doing something like this without apple. Buy or get a cheap domain name. Create a subdomain on it and have it catch and forward all messages to you when sent to that sub. For example:
The problem is if someone figures it out and starts sending you spam to {random}@domain.tld. That's when you will need to sit down and start creating actual aliases for all those used email addresses and stop the catch-all forwarding:)
Also, another downside is that you will loose privacy by using your own domain.
And the lack of privacy makes targeted scam/phishing more likely, and targeted scam is the one we are most susceptible to.
All in all, I am not saying this is bad idea, in fact I am doing it myself, just pointing out this is not so black and white.
Using iCloud solves those problems, but puts you at risk of getting your account banned and loosing access to those emails, so there is that.
Probably best way to deal with it is to get dedicated email domain with a bunch of your friends, and hook it up with something like SimpleLogin. But that's gets complicated quickly ;)
I have run this for years with very little problems. And I can honestly say that have not found anyone writing to addresses I did not give them at their domain. Simple as this is, it is way to niche for companies to figure it out and exploit it. And if that really was a problem I'd just create a new subdomain.
If you are worried about privacy, get a domain just for this. Use domain privacy and dont host other things there.
Yes, some sites whitelist domains or dont allow subdomains. For those I'll use another account - or a firefox alias or something. But 9 out of 10 work fine.
I am not a fan of alias services since materializing names takes discipline. How many do you make? Maybe there is a limit of 50. When do you share them across services? My guess is many people just create 2 or 3 aliases they use for everything - which defeats the purpose. Sure, it masks your personal address, but once one gets compromised, you find it basically served as your personal address anyway.
I also dont really keep track of most of the names I use. Since most are one time things that I would never use again, like to sign a waiver or something. But I mostly stick to '{domain}@' for the names. So my nytimes account would just be nytimes@, which is predictable when I need to recover it. I used to use addy.io for this, but it was not as good since it had account limits and I had to manually manage every alias. Much easier for me to just create a mail filter to sinkhole an old name. Of course I have never really needed to do this anyway.
I've found using a subdomain helps with that, spammers will try everything@domain.tld but won't bother trying to brute force subdomains.
However be warned some surprisingly large websites don't support subdomains, for example eBay will silently send user@sub.domain.tld to user@domain.tld and you'll only figure it out by looking at your server logs for rejected mail.
In those cases I have to specifically alias that username@domain.tld to the subdomain.
With this new Apple privacy subdomain maybe eBay will finally fix this.
I do this. The awkward thing is when I am in person or on the phone and have to explain that my customer email address is [their_business_name]@my_weird_domain.tld
But the people usually just nod along.
The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
> The only awkward thing is when I am in person or on the phone and have to explain that my customer email address
I had one small business aggressively threaten me that they fully owned their business name and I wasn't allowed to use it in my email address.
My solution was to keep my wonderful aliases and dump them. If a business is concerned but nice about it I'll offer an alternative such as plumber@
> The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
If you have your own domain most mail providers don't care what username@ you use on your sent mail so you shouldn't need any additional mailboxes (especially if they already offer inbound catch all)
I also use the ReplayAsOriginalRecipientUp [1] extension in Thunderbird which takes the recipient address and puts it as the sender for ongoing communication.
> I had one small business aggressively threaten me that they fully owned their business name and I wasn't allowed to use it in my email address.
I haven't had that, but before I switched to Hide My Email I've had many businesses ask if I was an employee of the business - many people don't intuit the difference between john@bank.com and bank@john.com.
Just happened to me today! I was at the Verizon store and my address was verizon@... Sometimes it leads to confusion, but sometimes it leads to getting extra special treatment actually! They think I'm someone important.
Not really, this only works for other emails hosted by Gmail (including Workspaces) or if you supply SMPT that will send those emails. If you use simple email forwarding from your DNS provider, you don't have SMPT server to give to gmail:/
Google will happily send from smtp.gmail.com, after verifying that you own that email. You won’t get DKIM, but Google’s reputation is enough to make the mail land in people’s inboxes.
So I guess I'll take a moment and plug my email provider, Fastmail. Their integration with 1Password to enable creation of Masked Email at account creation time is really fantastic! I have several hundred of these at this point, it's made my digital life appreciably better.
But to the point of forward-in-only -- I use the fastmail web client and iOS client. Both of these respond using the Masked Email address if you choose to respond to an email. In fact I can choose any of my masked email addressed as I am composing mail to initial communication from that address.
In short, "it just works". I really can't say enough good things about Fastmail!
I do something similar, use an open source service called addy.io, bought a domain but you can also use their domains too, and each website has a separate login i create through bitwarden with the addy integration.
> Long story short: now both Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email aliases are going to be issued on the @private.icloud.com subdomain. This makes it much easier to ban all aliases without affecting non-relay mailboxes on iCloud mail.
Could someone clarify why having Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email on the same domain would make a blanket ban easier rather than harder? What am I missing?
Before, the emails were "me@icloud.com", the default for all apple users. There was no way to distinguish normal emails from generated private emails.
Now, they will be "blah@private.icloud.com", so it will be easy to ban the generated/private email that reduces the ability to associate logins across services.
Unclear why Apple would shoot themselves in this way; I hope it's not Ternus complying with anti-privacy.
I see – somehow the Apple UI for this gave me the mistaken impression that privaterelay.appleid.com was the domain used by the alias, but I see now that it was always just icloud.com.
maybe to avoid getting their legitimate email servers banned by other servers since they host (i.e. being exploited) a growing number of spam accounts.
I've been in the ecosystem long enough to have .iCloud.com, .me, .mobileme.com, iTunes.com, and probably one or two more addresses all assigned by various Apple services over the years before they started unifying the systems.
They all work, and independently of one another.
I wonder if all the domains will be migrated, and how namespace collisions will be handled.
Apple was generating (something)@icloud.com whenever you used that service.
Now, it will use (something)@private.icloud.com instead. So you can ban this subdomain instantly, knowing people will be "hiding" with this service by default.
It's like blocking anondaddy, simplelogin etc but not protonmail.
I guess their thought process is, both alias and non-alias accounts use @icloud.com
You were always able to reserve a normal icloud email address just like you would a GMail account, so banning all icloud email addresses would be banning non-alias Apple customers
That being said, I'm not convinced anyone who wanted to ban aliases couldn't have already. The alias emails look weird enough I'm guessing you could ban them with few false positives.
"Useless" is a leap. The kind of site that would block private relay emails is the kind that was already getting my burner anyway. The private relay is for sites I want to hear from, but also want a failsafe in case they're hacked later.
In the flip side, someone who blocks private.iCloud.com will block the ability to do SSO with Apple, thereby cutting themselves off from Apple’s ecosystem.
Not really. You could allow private.icloud.com only if they're using Apple's SSO. If someone tries to create an account not using Apple's SSO, then you don't allow private.icloud.com email addresses.
I wonder if the existing hidden emails I already have in iCloud will be changed over too. If that's not the case, I'm just going to use one of the 50 throwaway addresses I already have.
Determined sites could already easily do this. Just detect the patterns used. I agree it's a useless change though.
heave_balks_0g@icloud.com
It shouldn't matter for the sign in with apple because sites are already expressly supporting that.
Email aliasing is hard because you want privacy from a herd of users, but then you're locked into that ecosystem versus a domain you control has no herd, but the upside is no lock-in.
I use Proton aliases everywhere...Well not everywhere, there are indeed quite some places that don't accept a passmail.net address... So I can imagine this becoming a useless feature, at least on some sites.
Btw I only use these aliases for sites where I don't mind loosing the login, otherwise it would the mother of all lock-ins... Would have been nice if I could opt for aliases on my own (secondary?) domain... At least then I could still move them (using wildcards or some exported list).
Almost all of my iCloud relayed addresses are already @privaterelay.appleid.com, and they've been working perfectly. So I don't expect this to change any time soon.
Does it? I use Hide My Email largely without integration to the Apple ecosystem - I generate new emails on icloud.com and copy/paste them to login forms before saving to 1Password.
Nothing breaks when you switch. You just can't create more private icloud addresses. I recently switched back to Android and can still use my old icloud logins.
That was always opt-in from the sites, and many never bothered - me included, because I refuse to pay Apple $99 per year for the privilege to offer easier authentication to their users.
I frequently run into scenarios where it won't let me generate the email within 1password on a website, and I have to go to Fastmail and then manually do it. Is this something you have bene able to work around?
Because many sites check the domain part of your email address against a blocklist, which contains entries like trashmail.com to prevent users from signing up with ad-hoc throwaway accounts. They don't want that, because they'd like to get a proper lead they can either track, sell, or reach out to.
Now Hide My Email allowed you to do just that: Create an account with an email that wasn't tied to your identity, and that you could just decommission if you didn't need it anymore. Sites had no way to detect these either, because all of the randomly generated addresses Apple provided you with just ended in @icloud.com, which is also used by tons of regular accounts - so if you blocked this domain, you'd invariably preclude millions of people from your service.
But by separating the domains, sites can simply add private.icloud.com to their trash mail blocklist, preventing the use of Hide My Email, while regular @iCloud.com addresses will continue to work. It makes the entire service useless at once.
A tiny, tiny fraction of sites and apps offer Sign in with Apple. Every single service with user accounts under the sun allows signing up with a Hide My Email address.
That random online shop you order something from once? The IT forum that only shows external links for signed-in users? The whacky new AI tool you want to try out? The startup "sign up for updates" newsletter box? None of these offer Sign in with Apple. For all of them Hide My Email avoids having to disclose your real email address. This is broken now.
Right now it’s the same @icloud.com domain as normal personal emails. Now all auto-generated emails will use a separate domain name, so sites can block emails with that domain, without worrying about blocking people’s main personal email.
Websites block certain throwaway email domains from signups. The concern is that this will happen with private.icloud.com
A good example of a throwaway email that is now useless because of these blocks is mailinator.com. Originally, you could just make up a random email on the spot like gregsrightfoot@mailinator.com, visit mailinator.com, and get the needed signup verification email. These services autodeleted messages and required no signup so they were a black hole for spam. However websites eventually got wise that their spam wasn’t being seen and started blocking the domain. Mailinator came up with alternative domains and there was a brief back and forth before the throwaway email domains all ended up being blocked.
You can use Hide My Email on any website though, whereas Sign In with Apple is limited to just those websites and apps that support it. Sign In with Apple isn't nearly as popular on the web, so it's a lot easier to just ban "@private.icloud.com" from your web service there.
Hide My Email isn’t particularly related to apps. You can use it on any web form that asks for your email address, or as the sender of any email message you send using Apple Mail.
simplelogin from Proton works great, can recommend; for Uber I generate uber.random-word@simplelogin.com, for Slack slack.random-word etc to easily see who leaked my email
Where do I sign to show my opposition to this change? Hide My Email has been essential to keep my digital life protected from abusive mail lists and frankly one of the features that make me associate icloud with a premium service
Shameless plug - I created a chrome extension that allows to create unique email addresses that forward to your real inbox. It uses Cloudflare email routing, simplifies creating/labeling of new addresses and keeping track of them. Always 1 click away.
The addresses are pre-allocated and recycled when deleted so creating a new one is faster that with Apple's hide my mail.
With cloudflare you can also just setup catch-all and be done wirh it.
I personally doing catch-all already, but problem is that using your own domain for website registration basically gives everyone unique id to eaaily connect all the information that ever been leaked for your accounts and something always gets leaked.
My email addresses been public for years and spam was never a big issue.
But yeah it mostly opposite problem I would say - spam filters eat usefull stuff sometimes. Just today I found one more job related email in spam, but its from public mailbox damn.
Privacy is kind a bigger issue and having aliases on icloud is just much more convinient than having 10 accounts.
email isn't really a decentralized system at all. Google, Microsoft and Amazon own e-mail delivery. Perhaps Google ads customers complained that they could not correlated private @icloud addresses, and we are now witnessing the consequences. What Apple got in exchange from Google, I don't know, I'm sure it is related to their Siri deal.
Come on. Most likely this is just a result of some manager pushing for "improvement": "Why we have two different privacy email alias systems? Lets make unified one, save on maintenace and I get promotion".
And might be there just no one remain as owner of feature to explain them why its bad idea.
Oh fuck. I love Hide My Email and it's been the best feature about iCloud ever since it came out.
It's actually useful compared to Gmail's useless "yourrealaddress+alais" that gives away your actual email anyway, and it helped me catch quite a few spammers/data sellers.
Hide My Email addresses already have a peculiar format that others could guess, and some do block those, and there's no reason to add a blatant "private." tag.
This is a win for privacy-intruders, not users, just like Apple's iCloud Keychain API that has allowed Facebook, TikTok etc. to secretly track users across multiple devices and device reinstalls for years.
It all dates back to the Andrew Messaging System at CMU, developed in the 1980's. Originally the format was "<username>+<keyword>+<args>@example.net" where the mail server would interpret the keyword and arguments to route the message in whatever unique way that keyword would dictate (e.g. bob+dist+~/mailinglist@example.net would read the file mailinglist in Bob's home directory and deliver the email to addresses listed in it). If the keyword was not recognized, it would just deliver normally. So bob@example.net and bob+alias@example.net were equivalent, and could be used to filter after the fact if desired.
Part of the reason to use Hide My Email was that it made keeping myself private hassle-free. Making a system to pre-generate values and then catalog them for later use is quite the hassle.
As far as I can tell, nobody blocks it. Google sometimes rejects emails where the from address doesn't match the real sending address, which is fair.
I guess the first couple of years were rocky, I hadn't figured out DKIM and SPF and all the other blood rituals yet. Back then I got blocked by Steam and banks. But ever since I set up the correct security it's been fine. Been my primary email for a long long time. All my online accounts are tied to it.
Incidentally, I also have free and unlimited aliases. But I don't usually bother because I have a rule to route all messages to unknown addresses into a special folder. I can give out any random address at my domain and it will always make it back to me. So much more convenient than logging into the website to generate an alias.
The biggest issue was if your ip address got listed in a RBL (Realtime Blackhole List), and then nobody would talk to you. Some were easy to get off, others were permanent blocks, and I found those to be constantly interfering with the delivery of mail. At least the rejection would usually tell you which RBL blocked you.
I have never encountered one.
But I have only had maybe 3 services ever reject my domain, and those were because the domain contains a number.
iCloud+ was the best $1 / month custom domain email and email alias service with 100GB of E2EE cloud drive.
Obviously it will be sad to see it enshittified for seemingly no reason.
We've had to ask you many times to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we'll end up having to ban you. I don't want to ban you, so please fix this. It shouldn't be hard to make your substantive points without being an asshole.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Problem is that using of own domain is creating huge privacy and cybersecurity risk since you can track all the person profiles across all the databases ever leaked.
Its nice as vanity item, but it's better not to use same domain across banks, online forums and porn sites. ;-)
2. Use the domain exclusively for hosting your own mail, but create a fake account creation page that just temporarily doesn't work.
3. As an added bonus, should you one day get a subpoena for information about one of your site user's online activities, you've got like a 24 hour head start on fleeing the country.
No other parking available anywhere near in 30 mins walking distance. (paid or free)
I had to download a 3rd party app that asked me to register. This app isn’t by the Italian government, it’s affiliated though.
So in that situation, I want nothing to do with your website or app, because I wouldn’t able to park.
It's so hard to build anything big and durable because they've created these steep gradients.
They were literally trained not to value their privacy. The first generation of ipad kids now have driver's licenses.
- the apps almost always allow you to remotely increase your stay - the apps almost always allow you to pay by the exact minute instead of by the quarter/half an hour
> If your website will block me out because I used a privacy friendly email, I want nothing to do with your website.
I want that company devalued and bought by Verizon or AOL to die a Yahoo death.
What is insane to me is how few people realize their stock has a higher P/E than nVidia… and it isn’t because of some bullshit minor AI data deals. It’s a youth-forward narrative machine, and everyone knows it.
If the future's your oyster for what happens to Reddit, why stop there? If it's bought by somebody, that implies that Spez gets an amount of money that is greater than $0.00. Ideally, we avoid such a grim and unjust outcome. We want it to be made effectively worthless so he goes broke.
As of about six months ago, AT&T's web site would not accept email addresses without a three-character TLD. I had to get a customer service person on the phone to manually change my address.
Nothing of it solves privacy though.
Of course this is industry-dependent (I'm in payments processing) and not every business should have this posture, but being able to distinguish between users who are going out of their way to be anonymous and users who aren't is a useful signal.
It's not a fake e-mail, it's a legitimate e-mail that you can send e-mail to and the user will receive, which has to be created by a paying iCloud user and not an anonymous rando off the internet.
I'd be interested to know what downsides, if any, you see for a website to accept a private e-mail address like this. Do you have a legitimate complaint about these sorts of e-mails? Again, given that private relay isn't an 'anonymous e-mail service' (it's still tied to your iCloud account so spam, etc. shouldn't be any more of an issue) but merely an 'anonymous to the person you're giving the e-mail to' service.
If your actual complaint is 'if you insist on giving me an e-mail that you can revoke unilaterally making me unable to contact you against your wishes, and which cannot be associated with other user data from other sources to build a profile of you, then you're not worth having as a customer' then that's a separate complaint - and one that means I want nothing to do with your website.
I'm running a business where I need to know who you are, because my platform can be used defraud other people. If you're trying to hide who you are from our very first interaction, that's a massive red flag.
If you can trivially create hundreds of these emails, and fill in the rest of the required info with bought/stolen/generated PII, now I have a vector for mass fraud. Requiring you to use a recognized non-anonymized provider doesn't stop you, but it sure does slow you down. (It's not this simple of course, but all security works in layers)
If these terms are not acceptable to you, then great! Don't use the website, there's no need to be salty because that's what you said you wanted. Isn't it?
I don't mind either, because the number of legitimate users who are bothered by this restriction is infinitesimal compared to the number of fraudsters who would take advantage if it wasn't in place. It can be difficult to comprehend the scale of platform fraud unless you've worked in this area, many days fraudulent signups outnumber legitimate ones.
I have been willing to do KYC for services (usually financial) without giving out my main email. Services that put up too many barriers to this don’t get my business. I concede that there aren’t that many users like me, compared to the general public, but I’m a legitimate user.
As I said above, and you concede, users like this are too small a minority to be worth worrying about.
When an organization invariably leaks my email and I start receiving spam to it, I generate a new one, update my email on record, deactivate the old one, and the spam stops.
Private emails regularly lead to awful customer service interactions because people cannot tell us the email they used to register. Fastmail at least is off the beaten path enough that people probably can understand. Apple, especially using sign in with Apple, is horrid. And not just people unable to tell us the email; they then create multiple accounts; try to sign in on web and use their actual email and then have 2 accounts and flip shit that their stuff is gone; etc. Oh, and regularly blame us for their confusion.
I'm curious (and not trolling by asking) what a solution might be since email has been used as a unique account identifier for so long it is hard for my brain to think of another option at the moment.
nytimes@mailsub.example.com -> jono@gmail
anything-else@mailsub.example.com -> jono@gmail
You dont even need to materialize aliases at all.
Also, another downside is that you will loose privacy by using your own domain.
And the lack of privacy makes targeted scam/phishing more likely, and targeted scam is the one we are most susceptible to.
All in all, I am not saying this is bad idea, in fact I am doing it myself, just pointing out this is not so black and white.
Using iCloud solves those problems, but puts you at risk of getting your account banned and loosing access to those emails, so there is that.
Probably best way to deal with it is to get dedicated email domain with a bunch of your friends, and hook it up with something like SimpleLogin. But that's gets complicated quickly ;)
If you are worried about privacy, get a domain just for this. Use domain privacy and dont host other things there.
Yes, some sites whitelist domains or dont allow subdomains. For those I'll use another account - or a firefox alias or something. But 9 out of 10 work fine.
I am not a fan of alias services since materializing names takes discipline. How many do you make? Maybe there is a limit of 50. When do you share them across services? My guess is many people just create 2 or 3 aliases they use for everything - which defeats the purpose. Sure, it masks your personal address, but once one gets compromised, you find it basically served as your personal address anyway.
I also dont really keep track of most of the names I use. Since most are one time things that I would never use again, like to sign a waiver or something. But I mostly stick to '{domain}@' for the names. So my nytimes account would just be nytimes@, which is predictable when I need to recover it. I used to use addy.io for this, but it was not as good since it had account limits and I had to manually manage every alias. Much easier for me to just create a mail filter to sinkhole an old name. Of course I have never really needed to do this anyway.
However be warned some surprisingly large websites don't support subdomains, for example eBay will silently send user@sub.domain.tld to user@domain.tld and you'll only figure it out by looking at your server logs for rejected mail.
In those cases I have to specifically alias that username@domain.tld to the subdomain.
With this new Apple privacy subdomain maybe eBay will finally fix this.
But the people usually just nod along.
The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
I had one small business aggressively threaten me that they fully owned their business name and I wasn't allowed to use it in my email address.
My solution was to keep my wonderful aliases and dump them. If a business is concerned but nice about it I'll offer an alternative such as plumber@
> The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
If you have your own domain most mail providers don't care what username@ you use on your sent mail so you shouldn't need any additional mailboxes (especially if they already offer inbound catch all)
I also use the ReplayAsOriginalRecipientUp [1] extension in Thunderbird which takes the recipient address and puts it as the sender for ongoing communication.
[1]: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/reply...
I haven't had that, but before I switched to Hide My Email I've had many businesses ask if I was an employee of the business - many people don't intuit the difference between john@bank.com and bank@john.com.
I was once on the phone with german insurance provider and they dictateted me email to send documents to: kundenbetreuung@passportcard.de
I dont speak German so it was both tough and funny EuroTrip-like moment.
Yes its really email they use.
But to the point of forward-in-only -- I use the fastmail web client and iOS client. Both of these respond using the Masked Email address if you choose to respond to an email. In fact I can choose any of my masked email addressed as I am composing mail to initial communication from that address.
In short, "it just works". I really can't say enough good things about Fastmail!
But keep good records!!
It gets really awkward when you’re trying to recover an account and can’t remember what custom email you used.
Could someone clarify why having Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email on the same domain would make a blanket ban easier rather than harder? What am I missing?
Now, they will be "blah@private.icloud.com", so it will be easy to ban the generated/private email that reduces the ability to associate logins across services.
Unclear why Apple would shoot themselves in this way; I hope it's not Ternus complying with anti-privacy.
https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/use-hide-my-email-in-...
I think I've also seen this in Mail.app but that's not shown on this page.
UPD: apperently this supposedly only work if someone message you first. So you still cant spam from aliases.
I've been in the ecosystem long enough to have .iCloud.com, .me, .mobileme.com, iTunes.com, and probably one or two more addresses all assigned by various Apple services over the years before they started unifying the systems.
They all work, and independently of one another.
I wonder if all the domains will be migrated, and how namespace collisions will be handled.
> Existing addresses on the legacy domains will continue to work and forward mail to users without interruption.
It's like blocking anondaddy, simplelogin etc but not protonmail.
You were always able to reserve a normal icloud email address just like you would a GMail account, so banning all icloud email addresses would be banning non-alias Apple customers
That being said, I'm not convinced anyone who wanted to ban aliases couldn't have already. The alias emails look weird enough I'm guessing you could ban them with few false positives.
While this is true not all of them been weird. Some can be just word + number + word without dots or underscores.
Also blanket banning whole domains is just much easier and already done for temporary emails. No false positives.
heave_balks_0g@icloud.com
It shouldn't matter for the sign in with apple because sites are already expressly supporting that.
Email aliasing is hard because you want privacy from a herd of users, but then you're locked into that ecosystem versus a domain you control has no herd, but the upside is no lock-in.
Apple is one of few companies that ia able to push for this with market share.
They already DO do it, I don't know how they're currently determining it
Btw I only use these aliases for sites where I don't mind loosing the login, otherwise it would the mother of all lock-ins... Would have been nice if I could opt for aliases on my own (secondary?) domain... At least then I could still move them (using wildcards or some exported list).
I use this wonderful extension to make it easy to generate aliases https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-hide-my-emai...
I sure wish 1Password + Fastmail would let you generate them within the 1Password app without requiring a browser sign-up page in the middle.
Now Hide My Email allowed you to do just that: Create an account with an email that wasn't tied to your identity, and that you could just decommission if you didn't need it anymore. Sites had no way to detect these either, because all of the randomly generated addresses Apple provided you with just ended in @icloud.com, which is also used by tons of regular accounts - so if you blocked this domain, you'd invariably preclude millions of people from your service.
But by separating the domains, sites can simply add private.icloud.com to their trash mail blocklist, preventing the use of Hide My Email, while regular @iCloud.com addresses will continue to work. It makes the entire service useless at once.
That random online shop you order something from once? The IT forum that only shows external links for signed-in users? The whacky new AI tool you want to try out? The startup "sign up for updates" newsletter box? None of these offer Sign in with Apple. For all of them Hide My Email avoids having to disclose your real email address. This is broken now.
A good example of a throwaway email that is now useless because of these blocks is mailinator.com. Originally, you could just make up a random email on the spot like gregsrightfoot@mailinator.com, visit mailinator.com, and get the needed signup verification email. These services autodeleted messages and required no signup so they were a black hole for spam. However websites eventually got wise that their spam wasn’t being seen and started blocking the domain. Mailinator came up with alternative domains and there was a brief back and forth before the throwaway email domains all ended up being blocked.
They already require that you use Sign in with Apple, I would think that it working fully is also a requirement?
Fastmail also has wonderful random email functionality you can link up to your Bitwarden client or use the Fastmail API.
The addresses are pre-allocated and recycled when deleted so creating a new one is faster that with Apple's hide my mail.
https://github.com/webmonch/hide-my-mail-cloudflare
I personally doing catch-all already, but problem is that using your own domain for website registration basically gives everyone unique id to eaaily connect all the information that ever been leaked for your accounts and something always gets leaked.
Not a very good idea for privacy.
But yeah it mostly opposite problem I would say - spam filters eat usefull stuff sometimes. Just today I found one more job related email in spam, but its from public mailbox damn.
Privacy is kind a bigger issue and having aliases on icloud is just much more convinient than having 10 accounts.
And might be there just no one remain as owner of feature to explain them why its bad idea.
It's actually useful compared to Gmail's useless "yourrealaddress+alais" that gives away your actual email anyway, and it helped me catch quite a few spammers/data sellers.
Hide My Email addresses already have a peculiar format that others could guess, and some do block those, and there's no reason to add a blatant "private." tag.
This is a win for privacy-intruders, not users, just like Apple's iCloud Keychain API that has allowed Facebook, TikTok etc. to secretly track users across multiple devices and device reinstalls for years.
https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5233/